|
Post by vikoon on Apr 8, 2014 15:50:09 GMT -5
I didn't say they work for free, but the way it DOES work is that the revenue they make from selling their games and licenses are how they keep their company going. The games cost a few millions to make at least and the larger scale the game, the more money you throw at it to maintain it. Considering they have to run and maintain servers as well means that there is a lot of money coming in that can be used to support the quality of the game and development process. Essentially, the money they got goes toward future IPs and maintenance. What it boils down to is that the company doesn't generate money until they sell a product and the profit from that, goes back into the company. Cyclical. As far as 6 months and problems still not fixed; Think about how big this game is. Just like in the MMO world, there are A LOT of things the go into the different aspects of the game. That is an insurmountable amount of coding that goes into all of that and given how even the slightest little thing being off can break the whole system, I can understand why things take forever to release. I would hope it all goes through a stringent testing process before it gets released, but they realize too, that if they don't push out a product, there are going to be some very unhappy customers out there. Yeah, there are some broken parts, but I do see them trying to fix them in big bundles on a periodic basis. If this were in the pc market, those updates could be smaller and more sporadic, but the way updates can be pushed through the Xbox/PSN marketplaces, they have to keep those policies in mind while also making sure bugs are addressed on both systems. It's not perfect and it sucks waiting, but I don't think it possible to be any quicker unless they up their programming staff, which as I see it, is improbable due to what they're probably trying to accomplish elsewhere. R* does continue to generate insane amounts of money though. They still sell products that have San Andreas stamped on it and they just realized that game on smart phones which must have made them millions more. Add in all the GTA V "Swag" that is for sale on a regular basis too. Money isn't the problem here and it never has been for R*.
I don't think anyone is questioning the amount of coding and programming that goes into the game. Anybody who knows anything about that stuff can easily realize and appreciate the hard work that goes into such a large scale project. But the bottom line remains the same. The game isn't working properly and it has been 6 months. Add in the fact that R* is one of the quietist companies of all time and that is where you get the frustration.
I am an HVAC mechanic and have my own business and I can tell you one thing for sure. I don't get away with doing a 95% of a job for full payment. I promise 100% and I deliver 100%. If I don't deliver, I do everything within my power to make it right. Not 6 - 8 months down the road either.
|
|
SYNTHINX
Lieutenant
Drink your Löwenbräu and sing, "Here's to good friends!"
Posts: 437
|
Post by SYNTHINX on Apr 8, 2014 17:13:17 GMT -5
To be fair, all game companies are pretty much aloof as to what they're doing behind closed doors. None of them are going to post anything unless they know for sure what they can provide to save from saying they'll deliver something and not be able to. Aside from that, I'm fairly sure swag purchases bring in the least amount of revenue for the company which is why you see them in giveaways and such. Here's the underlying problem with all game companies nowadays: Pushing out unfinished products. The mentality in this day in age is to appease your publishing company and follow their standards. Unfortunately, publishing usually goads developers into pushing out a product at a much faster pace to get a product out in the market so that everyone involved can start making money. In the game industry, the whole thought process for publishing is that if the game functions to at least 95% capacity and can be readily marketed, then they are going to push it out the door and worry about fixing the back-end stuff later. They have that benefit being that they can go back to a product and do things to it where other companies can't. Today with how popular computer entertainment is, it is a highly competitive and fickle market and thus, if you don't have a product out there making money, you risk going bankrupt or closing. Back when computer games (and this means console games too) were a one time product, you spent the extra time to perfect it before release. Now, because your customers are less prone to patience, you push a product out that's near finish so that you can compete with other products less you forfeit your profits and are forgotten amongst the multitude of new IPs out there. So yeah, I agree that the game does have glitches and bugs, but I wouldn't say it doesn't work properly, it just doesn't work as expected. They do need to fix the issues, but in all honesty, I think they have a smaller team looking into the fixes while the creative bulk are working on other projects. No matter what they do, the game is never going to be perfect so it would be better to try and enjoy the game as it is rather than focus on what it isn't. This kind of product, especially with so many factors coming into play can never be 100% guaranteed because, at least for the online portion, you're fighting against so many different types of networks that you can never nail down all of the issues that arise from it. And really, for the most part, that's where the majority of the issues lie. The single player campaign seems relatively free of bugs, so the more stable portion of the product has been delivered at least.
|
|
Tompa8989
Banned for being a Douche
Friends don't let friends skip leg day
Posts: 294
|
Post by Tompa8989 on Apr 8, 2014 17:17:25 GMT -5
Well, that are they trying to accomplish elsewhere? Rockstar ain't hardly known for their production speed even though they have at least three different studios. If you thesis is correct the only thing that is wrong here is their greed. That they think that it's enough releasing a couple of free updates with a few more clothes and cars. I really don't see the kind of effort you would wish for regarding Rockstar at the moment.
|
|
SYNTHINX
Lieutenant
Drink your Löwenbräu and sing, "Here's to good friends!"
Posts: 437
|
Post by SYNTHINX on Apr 8, 2014 17:28:41 GMT -5
Well, they have mentioned that they want to work on sequels to some of their games and possibly some new games as well. We're not going to hear about them until they have a product in line for certain.
As for your statements about greed, I don't see them being any more greedy than any other company. I mean, honestly, they could do worse like making the game Pay to Play or bolstering the amount of micro-transactions and make you pay for stupid novelty items like most other games. Hell, how many CoD map packs and skin packs are out there? At least they're not flooding the market with junk like that, right? I mean, for cereal... they could be a LOT more greedy if they wanted to be. Trust me on that.
|
|
|
Post by vikoon on Apr 8, 2014 17:35:08 GMT -5
I can comfortably admit when a game fails to meet the standards of todays market. You make some good points Synthinx, but I stand by my statement that they are way in over their heads on the technical side of GTA Online. With a massive undertaking as this we should expect major problems of course. I don't think I am being irrational or anything to expect better from this game since it has been out for over 6 months now.
I will say that Elder Scrolls Online is also a revolutionary game in a massive world and they have had a few bugs with the release of the game. But nothing close to what GTA Online has. In fact ESO had less bugs on release than GTA Online has today. Don't we remember how long we had the hundreds of millions of dollars? I am pretty sure it was at least a month that we had it before it was fixed. There are many more examples I could use, like tanks blowing up my car and me having to pay for it. The list really does go on and all I am saying is that I defended the shit out of this game. I kept saying that they would figure it out and for people to relax. I've changed my perceptions based off of what we have seen happen over these past months.
|
|
Tompa8989
Banned for being a Douche
Friends don't let friends skip leg day
Posts: 294
|
Post by Tompa8989 on Apr 8, 2014 17:51:19 GMT -5
Well, they have mentioned that they want to work on sequels to some of their games and possibly some new games as well. We're not going to hear about them until they have a product in line for certain. As for your statements about greed, I don't see them being any more greedy than any other company. I mean, honestly, they could do worse like making the game Pay to Play or bolstering the amount of micro-transactions and make you pay for stupid novelty items like most other games. Hell, how many CoD map packs and skin packs are out there? At least they're not flooding the market with junk like that, right? I mean, for cereal... they could be a LOT more greedy if they wanted to be. Trust me on that. Yeah well, if i worked on Rockstar i would fix what is broken and finish what they started before starting new projects. And of course they could be more greedy, but that doesn't mean they are not greedy at all. And it doesn't matter what other companies do really. You can always find something that is worse that whatever you have now but that doesn't mean you have to settle for what you got. Imagine what the game industry would look like if everyone would just be satisfied and said ''well, it's not the worst i've ever come across''? You got to set the expectations high and apply some pressure cause without that we would get more half finished games than we already have. It's gone far enough with those ridiculous public beta tests and shit. That's just another way for the companies to save money. Either do it all the way or don't do it at all is what i would say to Rockstar. But as i believe i wrote earlier im really surprised that they aren't more careful with their fanbase. Cause gamers today ahve a lot less patient than 10 years ago. If heists are done with two fingers instead of a full hand i think GTA Online will slowly die until the story DLC just like GTA IV multiplayer did.
|
|
SYNTHINX
Lieutenant
Drink your Löwenbräu and sing, "Here's to good friends!"
Posts: 437
|
Post by SYNTHINX on Apr 8, 2014 17:55:09 GMT -5
You are probably right in that statement saying that they are in over their heads with online. They've never had a strong online component in any of their games, but this being their strongest yet, I think they made great strides.
Here's the thing though, their development was split in half between single-player elements and online elements. You cannot really compare them to ESO fairly because ESO was developed primarily for online so in that effect, their team tested and developed with online always in place. And granted, ESO has a lot of instance-based sections to their open world that affects the one user wherein you have multiple true open-world sandboxes going on with GTA that affects multiple people. In ESO, you have a somewhat 'limited' number of lobbies or servers that all players play on so it can be more easily controlled. GTA succumbs to generating sever open world lobbies and what with the inconsistency of network technologies, it is hard to maintain control over all of that. Heck, even I suffered from glitches that deleted characters, cars after they were blown up, and really ridiculous instances, but that all happens online where so many things can go wrong with just a simple hiccup of a router somewhere. Do I appreciate it? No, but in the end, the game is continually being patched and updated so eventually it may be fixed. And really, that's if they can find the source of the glitches in the first place.
|
|
SYNTHINX
Lieutenant
Drink your Löwenbräu and sing, "Here's to good friends!"
Posts: 437
|
Post by SYNTHINX on Apr 8, 2014 18:07:55 GMT -5
And Tompa, I agree you shouldn't settle for an unfinished product, but I still can't say they're being any more greedy than any other company. It's not right, for sure, but if you're wanting to make money, you're going to find a way to push a product out the door as fast as possible. If you feel unhappy about their practices, send them an e-mail, start a petition, or simply refuse their product. If enough people stopped buying half-made games, the industry as a whole would stop making them and actually deliver a finished game. And really, these things are really for entertainment purposes and in the grand scheme there are more important things to worry about.
Again though, the only way things can change is if you're willing to be proactive about it. I'm sure with as many people that are currently upset about the game state, you can find support to rally behind you. Use that support, do something. Heck, with the power of the masses you can do anything. They brought Firefly back that way. Couldn't hurt to try, right?
|
|
Tompa8989
Banned for being a Douche
Friends don't let friends skip leg day
Posts: 294
|
Post by Tompa8989 on Apr 8, 2014 18:41:10 GMT -5
And Tompa, I agree you shouldn't settle for an unfinished product, but I still can't say they're being any more greedy than any other company. It's not right, for sure, but if you're wanting to make money, you're going to find a way to push a product out the door as fast as possible. If you feel unhappy about their practices, send them an e-mail, start a petition, or simply refuse their product. If enough people stopped buying half-made games, the industry as a whole would stop making them and actually deliver a finished game. And really, these things are really for entertainment purposes and in the grand scheme there are more important things to worry about. Again though, the only way things can change is if you're willing to be proactive about it. I'm sure with as many people that are currently upset about the game state, you can find support to rally behind you. Use that support, do something. Heck, with the power of the masses you can do anything. They brought Firefly back that way. Couldn't hurt to try, right? Absolutely. In fact i was one of those asshole demanding a new ending for Mass Effect 3. But i think Bioware actually gives a shit. Rockstar never has. That one of the reasons they call themselves Rockstar.
|
|
|
Post by Big Notch on Apr 8, 2014 19:59:40 GMT -5
Well, they have mentioned that they want to work on sequels to some of their games and possibly some new games as well. We're not going to hear about them until they have a product in line for certain. As for your statements about greed, I don't see them being any more greedy than any other company. I mean, honestly, they could do worse like making the game Pay to Play or bolstering the amount of micro-transactions and make you pay for stupid novelty items like most other games. Hell, how many CoD map packs and skin packs are out there? At least they're not flooding the market with junk like that, right? I mean, for cereal... they could be a LOT more greedy if they wanted to be. Trust me on that. The difference here is that COD and those Pay to Play games don't have this type of bullshit going on as far as glitchses, hacks, and general lack of concern by the creators. When I used to play COD, I never had to worry about my Xbox freezing and I never had to worry about everybody just dropping out of a lobby. I would just get on, jump into a deathmatch and play. It was SIMPLE and EASY to get a deathmatch lobby filled. Pay to Play games generally are updated at a faster rate. So even if there are glitches... we don't have to wait MONTHS before something is done about it. Every time rockstar says they've fixed an issue in the game... its funny how i'm STILL not sure if it's actually fixed. Usually it's fixed for a few weeks and then breaks again. That is just bad programming and there is no way around it. I have a love/hate relationship with Rockstar at this point. The game is fun, and still has potential. But i'm pissed off at how unorganized and clunky everything is. And i'm even more frustrated at how little is being done about it. Especially the time-outs and server issues. Not only is NOTHING being done about it. It's just not even being mentioned at all by rockstar. It's like they're burying their heads in the sand and pretending this game functions like a normal game or something. They said that this game is supposed to be played for years... I don't see it happening. I give it about 6 more months until shit just completely falls apart..
|
|
|
Post by knapptime247 on Apr 8, 2014 20:53:59 GMT -5
I can comfortably admit when a game fails to meet the standards of todays market. You make some good points Synthinx, but I stand by my statement that they are way in over their heads on the technical side of GTA Online. With a massive undertaking as this we should expect major problems of course. I don't think I am being irrational or anything to expect better from this game since it has been out for over 6 months now. I will say that Elder Scrolls Online is also a revolutionary game in a massive world and they have had a few bugs with the release of the game. But nothing close to what GTA Online has. In fact ESO had less bugs on release than GTA Online has today. Don't we remember how long we had the hundreds of millions of dollars? I am pretty sure it was at least a month that we had it before it was fixed. There are many more examples I could use, like tanks blowing up my car and me having to pay for it. The list really does go on and all I am saying is that I defended the shit out of this game. I kept saying that they would figure it out and for people to relax. I've changed my perceptions based off of what we have seen happen over these past months. This doesn't excuse Rockstar but... The 2 games are built very differently in their server infrastructure. Rockstar using cloud servers saves money, and puts a lot of the power "out there". When something like ESO with dedicated servers that we're actually playing on encounters an exploit, they can update server side, problem fixed. With GTA:O because the game lies mostly on our consoles and the servers are a glorified matchmaking service, when there is a fix ALL systems have to be updated and it becomes an endless game of catch up and nobody wants to update a new patch every time they log in. This isn't to say that after 6 months they shouldn't have been able to roll out updates bi-weekly or something to fix these problems. This isn't directed at your comment specifically I suppose either, just felt like this was a good spot to interject and say that the way this game is built compared to other online open world games is way different than the norm, and is the reason it's free. And this choice left it more vulnerable to exploits, a price to pay for free online gameplay on this level.
|
|
Numb3rOn3Gun
Lieutenant
You know you're ugly when it comes to a group picture and they hand you the camera.
Posts: 876
|
Post by Numb3rOn3Gun on Apr 8, 2014 22:13:43 GMT -5
Microsoft charges for updates, don't they?
|
|
SYNTHINX
Lieutenant
Drink your Löwenbräu and sing, "Here's to good friends!"
Posts: 437
|
Post by SYNTHINX on Apr 8, 2014 22:27:18 GMT -5
Microsoft charges for updates, don't they? They have in the past. A friend of mine told me they've been a little more lax on updates as of late, but I'm still unsure as to whether or not they still have some checks and balances put into place and what they may be. And Notch, as of late CoD-Ghosts has been having freezing issues as well. Not as much as GTA, but friends of mine and I have been experiencing it on occasion as of late. I'm thinking some of the blame for that might be with the latest Xbox patch or the graphics engine they share. As for GTA, it seems like my system is getting too hot so maybe the game is causing that as well. I dunno. It'd be hard to tell without some kind of developer kit to see what the system is doing on the inside. In any event, I too agree that Rockstar has never been quite on the ball with anything, especially since everything they've done seems to have been built on something previous (and that's by way of technological aspects as well), but I know there are probably things behind the scenes that we're not aware of that are impacting this situation somewhat. Hopefully it all gets resolved and we can all be happy again.
|
|
Numb3rOn3Gun
Lieutenant
You know you're ugly when it comes to a group picture and they hand you the camera.
Posts: 876
|
Post by Numb3rOn3Gun on Apr 9, 2014 18:46:31 GMT -5
I lost Franklin's Buffalo that I've had for a really long time due to the update
|
|
Numb3rOn3Gun
Lieutenant
You know you're ugly when it comes to a group picture and they hand you the camera.
Posts: 876
|
Post by Numb3rOn3Gun on Apr 9, 2014 19:01:14 GMT -5
False alarm... it was impounded lol
|
|